Getting to know Santiago
A while ago, Kyle wrote a post in which she listed all the comunas of Santiago that she’s visited. It caught my attention because I like to think I know Santiago pretty well myself. There are plenty of places I haven’t seen and neighborhoods I’m not familiar with, but overall in my 3.5 years here I feel like I’ve had a pretty thorough introduction to different parts of the city.
Let’s start with the sector nororiente – the northeastern part of town, where I and many gringos live and work, and where I spend most of my time, and go clockwise, shall we?
Providencia - we currently live here
Vitacura - friends live here, we shop here, we eat here, and we like to go to Parque Bicentenario with Lola
Lo Barnechea - or as I call it “Argentina” (because it’s so far away toward the mountains). I don’t come here a lot, but we have a friend who lives here and have gone hiking here
Las Condes – friends live here, we shop here, we eat here
La Reina – friends live here, we’ll sometimes go to Parque Padre Hurtado or the home improvement store or grocery store across from the park
Ñuñoa - we lived here for two months and often go out to eat here, especially around Plaza Ñuñoa, as well as having friends who live here. Oh, and I used to have class at a couple campuses here – it’s where Rodolfo and I met!
Macul - we know people who live here
Peñalolén - I used to volunteer at the well-known toma (shanty town) here back in 2005
La Florida - Rodolfo’s family lives here
Puente Alto – we know people here and occasionally end up at a store here, usually if we’re at my in-law’s and go out to get something
La Pintana - as part of my study abroad program, we had an asado (barbecue) here with the family and neighbors our of program director’s doorman. The idea was to show us how many Santiaguinos live, since that was a reality that most of us wouldn’t otherwise have seen since we were living and studying in much wealthier areas.
La Granja - never been here
San Ramón - a friend lives here
San Joaquín – the only time we’ve ever actually stopped here as opposed to driving through was to go look at a puppy we had seen online as in need of adoption. It was probably the most scared I’ve ever been in Santiago, since we ended up driving through a seriously sketchy neighborhood where streets were unmarked and every corner had a group of men standing around watching us on our scooter. The main campus of Universidad Católica is in this comuna and is totally not sketch though, so it’s a good example of how even within a given comuna there are good and bad neighborhoods.
San Miguel – friends live here
Pedro Aguirre Cerda – a friend used to live here
La Cisterna - a friend lives here
Lo Espejo - never been
El Bosque – never been
San Bernardo – this is where we went for Office Olympics last year!
Cerrillos - a friend lives here, and we went to his wedding here
Maipú - friends live here
Pudahuel - if you’ve been to Chile, you’ve almost certainly been to Pudahuel because this is where the airport is. We also dropped off one of the kids Rodolfo coaches at his house in Pudahuel one night, but I try to forget that since we ended up getting horribly lost in pouring rain and fighting in front of this poor 13 year old who probably thought we were going to kidnap him.
Lo Prado - never been
Estación Central – I’ve been to both the train and bus stations and Kyle and Seba’s house
Quinta Normal – we took some pretty pictures there this one time
Cerro Navia – never been
Renca - never been
Quilicura - a friend lives there, and Rodolfo’s cousin got married there
Huechuraba - I’ve gone to some work events at different event centers there
Conchalí - Rodolfo’s cousin lives there
Independencia - my friend Policía Internacional is in Independencia
Recoleta - la Vega, Bellavista, Patronato, Cerro San Cristobal…yes, I’ve been to Recoleta a time or two
Santiago - downtown and the center of the city, of course I’ve been to Santiago!
And for those two extra comunas at the bottom there, Padre Hurtado and Pirque, I feel like those are somewhat outside city limits, but for good measure I’ll say I’ve never been to Padre Hurtado but have been to Pirque a bunch both with my host family (my host siblings’ aunt lives out there in a gorgeous house with the most relaxing yard) and to various vineyards and wine festivals.
So, considering that the 7 blacked out comunas are the only ones I haven’t been to, I think I’ve done ok!
I have always felt that a good knowledge of Santiago is somewhat fundamental to really experiencing the city. I’ve struggled to avoid feeling like gringos who live here and only know a select few of the wealthiest neighborhoods are missing out on the “real” Santiago, even though I know that most Chileans who earn the kind of salaries these
gringos do aren’t venturing any further afield. Right now, my position is that yes, it is perfectly legitimate/authentic/real to live a lifestyle that puts you never leaving the sector nororiente. Plenty of people, Chilean and foreigner alike, do that, and that’s great. However, I do think those people are missing out on something.
I’m not saying they’re missing out on some essential life experience, it’s more in the way that I’m missing out by not knowing how to play the guitar or not having ever backpacked around Southeast Asia. Does it make me less in anyway? No, of course not. But it does mean that my knowledge is less. Just as I don’t know how to play the guitar and therefore forfeit my opinion on the topic, someone – Chilean or not – who’s never seen certain parts of Santiago doesn’t know what that reality looks like firsthand. Of course, just as I can still get a sense of the outcome of guitar playing by listening to a CD and appreciating the music, someone who only knows the upper middle class version of Santiago can read the newspaper or the history books and gain an academic understanding of how the other half lives. But it’s not the same. And obviously, just because I’ve hung out in certain areas doesn’t mean that I have the same experience as people who actually live there (while I go home to my comfortable Providencia apartment with my imported products and my plane tickets back to the US) any more than someone who can pluck out “Mary Had a Little Lamb” knows what it’s like to be John Mayer.
I’m not passing judgment, and I will admit that I used to. All I’m saying is that I personally am grateful for the knowledge I have, which has come not only from newspapers and books but also from conversations and observations. I take little credit for this. Sure, I volunteered in the toma, but the kids I talked to were the ones who showed me what their lives were like. Almost everything else has come through Rodolfo, who grew up in a lower middle class area, went to a high school that had students from all over the city and through handball and his choice of university and major made friends from diverse backgrounds. I am thankful for having had these opportunities to gain a better understanding of the city I live in, and it is from that place of thankfulness and appreciation of what these experiences have taught me that I wish the same kind of exploration and understanding for everyone, wherever you may live, but especially for my fellow Santiaguinos.
I'm impressed, you've been to a lot of places. I tend to agree with you, that it's enriching to visit different parts of the city, but on the other hand, it's not exactly fair to judge foreigners who haven't left the "barrio alto" because there are many Chileans who never leave the barrio alto.
This is super picky, but Campus San Joaquin is actually in Macul, the other side of Vicuña Mackenna is San Joaquin, though. I only know because I have to send a lot of mail there.
Good to know – I wonder just how many people actually know Campus San Joaquín is not in fact in the comuna of San Joaquín.
What a great idea- I was doing a mental checklist as I read through your post. There are a lot of places I've past through or had to go to briefly for one reason or another but can't say I know them…
I also wonder how well I would do on a similar chart of my own home town city (which is much smaller I might add!)
And am VERY surprised to learn that Campus San Joaquin is not IN San Joaquín!
Emily, I admit, I'm one of those foreigners in that I never venture out of Providencia, Las Condes or Vitacura. I agree with Abby that many Chileans, including most who attend UAI with me, rarely leave either. In fact, even those who happen to live in El Centro for example, move about "el barrio alto" in every other aspect. The thing is, I don't feel I'm living any differently here than I did back home. I circulated basically between Menlo Park and Palo Alto, sometimes San Mateo, during the weekends and that's only if I wasn't already in SF. In SF I tended to also move about kind of in the same general neighborhoods as well (always trying to avoid the God awful Marina however.) While I get that it's good to venture out, it would be kind of like playing tourist for a day and seeing "what's out there." Because unless I have a particular reason to be anywhere, why go other than to sight see (which again, is quite valid)?
Thank you! This was an interesting post for me to read as I'll be in Santiago for a day or 2 next month. While I doubt I'll venture out of the tourist areas, it was cool to read about the other parts!
In October we can go to the places you have yet to visit!!!
Thanks for doing this, it definitely helps me with my own checklist. I've haven't been here long and it makes me feel like I'm doing pretty well so far!
Andrea, I'm definitely not only singling out foreigners in this post. I agree that while some "off the beaten path" comunas have sights to see (and it's good to go see them), for the most part you're not just going to decide to go to happy hour in San Ramón for the hell of it – nor would you necessarily gain some incredible cultural understanding from having a beer in a bar that happened to be in a different part of town. Your comment made me realize that really, more than being thankful for having SEEN different areas, I'm thankful for KNOWING people who come from those areas and have given me a broader understanding of the different types of lives people lead within Santiago.
And Andrea and Margaret, you both brought up the point of how you'd fare at home. I didn't say this in the post because I started to go off on a tangent, but I also have realized through my experiences in Santiago how little I've done the same at home (ie. how much I stick to my own little barrios). In fact, it's again through Rodolfo that I've started to see new places and meet new people when we go home because he's curious and will strike up conversation with people!
Kristin, enjoy your trip! I think with just 2 days you'll be fine staying in the tourist areas
Andi, I don't think we really want to go wandering around Renca for the hell of it, but I promise to show you some fun stuff within comunas I've already "done".
Heather, seems from your blog like you're embracing the spirit of exploration, so I'm sure you'll end up seeing your fair share of the city in the next few months.
I agree, I definitely have only explored neighborhoods of places I moved to, ie Tampa when I went for college and then Santiago when I moved down for study abroad/Seba. I don't know the Grandville/Grand Rapids area where I grew up nearly as well.
That being said, I am definitely judgmental of people who only circulate in the cuico neighborhoods. In my defense, I feel like a lot of that judgmentalness is a sort of self-defense mechanism of people being judgmental of me. I'm beyond sick of people's reactions to me telling them I live in Estacion Central, or that Seba is from there. I'm sick of having to add on "But we're moving to Cuico Neighborhood," at the end of my response to "Where do live?" in order to not have to defend myself.
I think that if one is going to be judgmental of those who only circulate in the "cuico" areas, it's important to first understand if said person with such limited circulation is doing so 1) because they wouldn't be "caught dead" in any other neighborhood or if 2) daily life just doesn't take them to that neighborhood. In fact, if it's reason #2, I think it's more cause to judge if the person ventures out to "see" how things are elsewhere. What? Are people in other comunas like monkeys we see at a zoo? If someone says to me "The best Peruvian restaurant is located in San Joaquin, given my high regard for Peruvian food, I'd probably go bc then I'd have REASON to go.
I get that it's easy to be judgmental towards those of us who only circulate in the comunas our lives take us, because I can understand that it's similar to that SATC episode where Miranda says she's from CT and the guy responds that he hasn't left Manhattan in 10 years.
But really, sticking to your comunas is kind of a day-to-day thing and not a conscious effort to not venture out … at least for me.
To be judgmental of those with this type of everyday movement is just as unfair as those who are judgmental of those those who don't live in the "cuico" areas. Both are a little wrong.
i am obsessed with discovering new places. in stgo and in nyc. too bad there isn't + time in my daily routine to get out more. i don't so much judge peeps for not getting out and about as much as i just think it's sorta odd when someone isn't + curious. but that's a general life experiences thing for me, not just counting the # of comunas that i've been to – from travel in general, to experimenting with food, to dating around, to trying new things (even if they are "bad" or "scary"), to thinking outside the box…i guess to me life is there to live, not to go through blindly like a herd animal. though it's true that there is comfort in the known and in the routine and people are creatures of habit. but like to waht extent are you always staying in your comfort zone? (ex: a girl i went to law school with had gone to columbia for undergrad and had NEVER been to the east village prior to attnding law school – which was in the west village so pretty much unavoidable- i couldnt belive that in 4 years she'd never taken a subway downtown) but there are also those other people who think of traveling as a competition – checking off countries they've been to for a long weekend. i sorta always laugh about people who go to 10 countries in 2 weeks and say they've been to the country – no honey, you were in paris for 48 hours. but i dont mean to be a jerk to those people either, i mean is stepping foot into a place better than not going at all? who knows. some days i think yes, some days i think it's maybe a waste of time. i say live and let live. there's also something to be said for really getting to know the place where you live. as a former resident of providencia i can say that i constantly discovered new places to walk, restaurants to try, houses to look at. now don't you know that your innocent post has led to a totally different and deeper discussion. oh blogging.
Hmm. I think your reasons for seeing different places around Stgo are totally valid. I think the important thing for me is to know how to get around a city, how to get to where I need to go. I also think it is important to be willing to go anywhere–if you have a reason to go.
But I agree with Andrea. (It reminds me a little of an argument I have with my husband where my line is "poverty isn't a field trip"-I'll have to write about it sometime)
I think the worry that one hasn't seen enough of Santiago is kind of due to being foreigners, who stereotypically stay in upper-class areas. No one wants to be the typical gringa who has rarely ventured below Providencia… maybe el centro. But as several have pointed out, this isn't even a worry in one's own US city. I live in a fairly small city and there are areas (both poor and wealthy) where I haven't spent much time and other areas (both poor and wealthy) where I have, but no one would question my authenticity as a city resident or think that my experience of the city was some how less.
There are probably millions of people in Santiago who go about their lives in their own and neighboring comunas without feeling like they aren't authentic enough or that they should really be checking out all the comunas if they want to say that they truly live in Stgo.
I also think "seeing other areas of Stgo" is an upper-class concern/requirement. I doubt we would be as critical of someone from la Pintana or Pudahuel who had never been to La Dehesa-we would never say, "get out, see how the other half lives" or "how can you say you live in Stgo if you have never been to Lo Barnechea?"
I think it is great to get to know the city you live in and be willing to go anywhere-but I reject the idea that you are obliged to go see the poor comunas to have an truly authentic experience.
just things I have been thinking about…
KM, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, and the point about travel is interesting. I think there's value in both spending two weeks in a small town in France "doing" nothing but talking to locals and in spending those same two weeks in Paris, London, Rome and Barcelona seeing the main tourist sights. You just learn different things, in the same way that I happen to think that getting to know new parts of a city is a valuable experience, whereas you might tell me that it's fine but really I should be spending my time going to more museums and theaters. There's so much to do in life!
Annje, I definitely don't mean to say that you have to take a field trip to a poor neighborhood in order to "really" live somewhere – that's the realization I first came to when I posted about this before (both that I did previously have that opinion and that I was wrong). And I know what both you and Andrea mean about "poverty isn't a field trip". I actually felt really uncomfortable on our trip to La Pintana for that very reason until I started talking to people and stopped feeling like I'd come to watch them in their natural habitat. For me now, it's evolved from feeling like I have to see parts of Santiago in order to break out of the expat mold into feeling like because I've organically seen other places (and met other people), I've gained something. And I do hope to take that with me wherever I live in the future, even if it's back in my hometown, whether in the form of finding the hole-in-the-wall restaurant in a place I don't usually go or joining an activity with people from different backgrounds.
I'm not saying that it's good that I'm judgmental of people who don't get out of their comunas, but it is definitely a knee jerk reaction to people judging me and who I've married because we live in a poor neighborhood.
If you haven't been outside your comuna, that's fine, but you can't characterize your life as being standard Chilean life and then being afraid of everybody/everything else in the city of Santiago. That's what annoys me.
PS. I had no idea that San Joaquin wasn't in that comuna.
Being afraid of the big city is one thing. Being the kind of person who ventures out and seeks hole-in-the-wall anything is also another thing. Both are completely different and to me, completely irrelevant to this post I believe Emily intended. In fact aforementioned points could stand as separate blog posts by anyone, all on their own.
I stand by my point that if I live my life as my daily life doing things uninhibited but it just so happens that those places are in el NorOriente de Santiago – um, so what?
Kyle, I agree with this in the case of nororiente dwellers: "If you haven't been outside your comuna, that's fine, but you can't characterize your life as being standard Chilean life". That personally is something I've seen more with gringos, perhaps from the feeling Annje mentioned of wanting to feel like we've got our new country/city figured out and extrapolating too much from our own experiences without realizing just how average those experiences are (or aren't). The Chileans I know who live that way tend to just go about their lives without making those comparisons, the same way I never analyzed at home where exactly I fell in terms of socioeconomic class/lifestyle on a local, state or national level.
Andrea, I think being the venturing out type is related to what I originally had in mind. I mean really, this whole thing is my personal thoughts on how I think venturing is a good thing. But I agree that there's no major "so what" if someone either actively chooses not to do that or just hasn't happened to do it beyond not having had one particular experience and therefore not having the same level of knowledge on that particular topic. No better or worse than not doing any other thing you could choose to do in life.
Andrea, I'm not arguing with you on that. I'm saying this, again.
If you haven't been outside your comuna, that's fine, but you can't characterize your life as being standard Chilean life.
I completely agree with Andrea on this, pretty much every point she makes. Living in Providencia and only going out in Las Condes and Vitacura is a perfectly authentic Chilean experience because many, many Chileans live exactly like that.
My own life in Santiago, from when I had a Chilean girlfriend to now when I visit and stay and my flat there was/is basically Lastarria, Providencia, Las Condes and Vitacura. I have no reason whatsoever to go anywhere else unless I specifically need something (my work with renovations and construction has taken me all over the city, without me having the least idea which neighbourhood I'm in…). And that's as normal a life as most Chileans who live in Providencia or Las Condes have.
When I lived in Paris, I didn't got to neighbourhoods where I'd stand out and feel uncomfortable just to see the 'real' Paris. Same for Sydney, London and Buenos Aires. Hell, in the small country town I'm from in England, there are a couple of areas I stay well away from.
If you live and work in a city and your life only takes you to a few neighbourhoods, that's a standard local life, whether the neighbourhoods are wealthy or poor.
Matt, I don't think anyone has said that only staying in one area is less real or authentic or that it's a strictly gringo phenomenon. I in my post did say "I have always felt that a good knowledge of Santiago is somewhat fundamental to really experiencing the city" but then went on to explain that I've realized I was wrong to say that staying in one area is less of a real experience and that what I really feel is this whole bit about how I've found the experience of seeing other places valuable.
What people have said is that 1) some of us consider it fun/interesting/enriching to see a variety of areas and/or meet people from a variety of areas in Santiago or other cities and 2) if all you ever see is upper middle class life, and you think that therefore your upper middle class life is a reflection of the average Chilean life across the board, then you're wrong. The average Chileno – who lives in the barrios outside the nororiente area – has a much different life that you may never have seen if you haven't left that area.
The only reason they decided to call it Campus San Joaquin is because it sounds less flaite then calling in Campus Macul (or so I have been told numerous times).
To be fair, it is only about 50 meters from San Joaquin so it isn't thattt big of a stretch.
One never knows what kind of discussion a post will create. This one surely stirred the pot for a lot of readers!
I am a Chilean expat living in Canada. When I lived in Chile I visited and mingled with people in most neighbourhoods in and around Santiago.
As someone who was born and raised in Chile, I can confidently say that the 'barrio alto' life style is definitely NOT representative of Chile. How is living in "Rodeo Drive” or Hollywood similar to living in West Virginia or Ohio? They all speak English and use the American dollar, and that’s about it.
The life of average Chilenos is very diffrent than the cuico or 'barrio alto' life style.
I agree its important to see many parts, but I think its overvalued driving through a neighborhood one time or going to one asado in somebody’s house. Driving through a poor neighborhood to say that you’ve done it (or to briefly see poor people’s houses) is pretty superficial in itself, and I dont think it gets you very far. (Not speaking directly to you, just in general I think its something for young gringos to drive through population centers for 30minutes to think that they arent ABC1)
Agman, I agree with you, as do many of the other commenters. It’s not about driving through somewhere just to check it off your list, it’s about me personally enjoying the opportunities I’ve had here to get to know people from different backgrounds and see different areas. Thanks for commenting!